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 xcormier
 Joined: 05 Mar 2010  Posts: 3  :   Items 

Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 5:26 pm Post subject: minimum number of clues for sudoku 6*6 


I am french,and I found a sudoku 6*6 with exactly 8 clues which has an unique solution :
040 003
000 060
000 004
006 002
030 010
000 000
I wonder if an other person has found less clues than me.
but we can see that the minimum number of clues for a 6*6 is inferior or egal to 8.
NB: I have made an application for generating and solving sudokus on a mathematic application called MAPLE.
maplesoft>application center>Mathematics>General>maplet de sudoku version 4.(xavier cormier). 

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 Pat
 Joined: 06 Sep 2006  Posts: 243  :   Items 

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 12:55 pm Post subject: 


xcormier wrote:  I found a sudoku 6*6 with exactly 8 clues which has an unique solution : Code: 
.4. ..3
... .6.
... ..4
..6 ..2
.3. .1.
... ...
 I wonder if an other person has found less clues than me. 
going back 4 years [ edited to adjust URL for new forum ]  Red Ed (2006) wrote: 
Unless my coding let me down,
the minimum number of clues for the 3x2 case (M=6) is 8. 
Last edited by Pat on Tue Jun 08, 2010 6:07 am; edited 1 time in total 

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 Pat
 Joined: 06 Sep 2006  Posts: 243  :   Items 

Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:54 am Post subject: 2x4 


so the 2x3 is known 
now what do we know about the minimum number of clues for 2x4 ?? 

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 xcormier
 Joined: 05 Mar 2010  Posts: 3  :   Items 

Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:45 am Post subject: sudoku 4x2 with 18 clues 


I have found with my program several (minimum) sudokus 4*2 with 18 clues.
here is an example:
0000 6000
0208 0040
4000 0051
7060 0020
0301 0070
0070 0000
8003 0000
0000 0402 

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 Afmob
 Joined: 09 Mar 2010  Posts: 73  :   Items 

Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:30 am Post subject: 


Here is a symmetric 2x4 Sudoku with 14 clues:
1 2 3 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 4 0
5 0 0 6 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3
6 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 3 0 0 2
0 7 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 6 5 8
Running my programm through all possible 2x4 Sudokus with only 11 clues, I was able to prove that the true minimum is either 12,13 or 14. I haven't found one with 12 or 13 clues so far. 

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 Pat
 Joined: 06 Sep 2006  Posts: 243  :   Items 

Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:39 am Post subject: 


Afmob wrote:  Here is a symmetric 2x4 Sudoku with 14 clues:
Code: 
1 2 3 . . . . .
. . . . . . 4 .
5 . . 6 . . . .
. . . . . . . 3
6 . . . . . . .
. . . . 3 . . 2
. 7 . . . . . .
. . . . . 6 5 8


wow! 

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 Afmob
 Joined: 09 Mar 2010  Posts: 73  :   Items 

Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:12 pm Post subject: 


I found it while going through all symmetric 14 Clues 2x4 Sudokus after about 100 hours. Going through all 12 Clues would take roughly 1,5 years and all 13 Clues 20 years, so it's kind of doable.
By the way, there is no rotational symmetric 12 Clues 2x4 Sudokus (search took about 200 hours). 

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 Pat
 Joined: 06 Sep 2006  Posts: 243  :   Items 

Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:14 pm Post subject: re: 2x4 


hi Afmob,
welcome to the forum!
where have you been hiding?
Afmob wrote:  I found it while going through all symmetric 14 Clues 2x4 Sudokus 
so, how many 14clue puzzles have you found?symmetry is not required
in a post now lost, RW (2009.Dec.9) wrote: 
Interestingly, the minimum amount of clues for 2x2, 3x2 and 3x3
appears to be exactly (total amount of cells1)/5+1.
Obviously, this cannot be the case for 2x4,
but if the trend holds
I would guess on a minimum of 13 clues for a grid of that size. 
[ edited to show post has been lost ]
Last edited by Pat on Tue Jun 08, 2010 6:12 am; edited 1 time in total 

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 Afmob
 Joined: 09 Mar 2010  Posts: 73  :   Items 

Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:26 pm Post subject: 


I probably hid for too long.
I stopped looking for 14 clues Sudokus after I found this symmetric one. But after some rewrites of my programs and using a new canonical form (similar to but not the same as the popular minlex form) I found another one with 14 clues.
Code: 
.... ...1
..23 ....
.... .23.
.4.. ....
...2 ..5.
.6.. 4...
...7 ..8.
.1.. 6...

Those two are the only ones which I've found so far. I might look for more if we know that 14 Clues is the minimum but I hope not.
My computer is currently looking for 13 Clues and 12 Clues (very unlikely) 2x4 Sudoku and of course the infamous 16 Clue Sudoku (3x3 of course).
I think that a 13 Clue Sudoku is possible since I found several ones with less than 100 possible solutions (but I didn't save them ).
By the way, I can verify Red Ed's calculation of 537 essentially different 2x3 Sudoku with 8 clues (takes about 2 minutes on a single 2 Ghz CPU).
Edit: Here is a 13 Clue 2x4 Sudoku with 40 possible solutions:
Code: 
.... ...1
..23 ....
.... ..4.
56.. ....
.... 65..
...4 ....
...1 ..2.
.7.. .6..

Last edited by Afmob on Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:25 pm; edited 1 time in total 

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 pseudo coup
 Joined: 28 Aug 2005  Posts: 8  :   Items 

Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:51 am Post subject: re: 2x4 


Your first puzzle
is even prettier if we swap 57 Code: 
1 2 3 . . . . .
. . . . . . 4 .
7 . . 6 . . . .
. . . . . . . 3
6 . . . . . . .
. . . . 3 . . 2
. 5 . . . . . .
. . . . . 6 7 8

For your second puzzle,
my preferred version is Code: 
. . 1 2 . . . .
. . . . . . 3 .
4 . . . . . . 5
. . . 1 6 . . .
. . . 7 8 . . .
3 . . . . . . 4
5 . . . . . . .
. . . . 2 1 . .



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 Pat
 Joined: 06 Sep 2006  Posts: 243  :   Items 

Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 1:10 pm Post subject: 


pretty.
but when i go to solve the puzzle,
i like to see boxseparators
 123...........4.7..6...........36...........3..2.5...........678
Code: 
1 2 3 .  . . . .
. . . .  . . 4 .
+
7 . . 6  . . . .
. . . .  . . . 3
+
6 . . .  . . . .
. . . .  3 . . 2
+
. 5 . .  . . . .
. . . .  . 6 7 8

 ..12..........3.4......5...16......78...3......45...........21..
Code: 
. . 1 2  . . . .
. . . .  . . 3 .
+
4 . . .  . . . 5
. . . 1  6 . . .
+
. . . 7  8 . . .
3 . . .  . . . 4
+
5 . . .  . . . .
. . . .  2 1 . .



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 Pat
 Joined: 06 Sep 2006  Posts: 243  :   Items 

Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 1:15 pm Post subject: 


Afmob wrote: 
Edit:
Here is a 13clue
with 40 solutions:
Code: 
.... ...1
..23 ....
.... ..4.
56.. ....
.... 65..
...4 ....
...1 ..2.
.7.. .6..


does it have any 14clue puzzles?note 
when you edit an existing post,
the Topic is not flagged for new material,
thus your edit might go unnoticed. 

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 Afmob
 Joined: 09 Mar 2010  Posts: 73  :   Items 

Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 1:41 pm Post subject: 


I didn't want to make a new post because I thought it wasn't important enough since I had even found 13 Clues 2x4 Sudokus with less solutions (15 or 17, if I remember correctly) but I didn't keep them.
Concerning you're question: Add R4C6 = 7
Code: 
.... ...1
..23 ....
.... ..4.
56.. .7..
.... 65..
...4 ....
...1 ..2.
.7.. .6..

and you've got one with a unique solution. 

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 Pat
 Joined: 06 Sep 2006  Posts: 243  :   Items 

Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 6:50 am Post subject: 


Afmob wrote:  I thought it wasn't important enough
since I had even found 13Clues 2x4 Sudokus with less solutions
(15 or 17, if I remember correctly)
but I didn't keep them.

elsewhere, Pat (2007.May.25) wrote: 
above, gfroyle (2007.May.17) wrote: 
So what I do is to keep any pseudopuzzle that has "few" completions (say less than 10 or maybe 20) hoping that a subsequent "move" from one of those will land us back onto a real puzzle with a unique completion...

a small number of answers
may be irrelevant 
see: Megaclue
~ Pat 
[ edited to adjust URLs for new forum ]
Last edited by Pat on Tue Jun 08, 2010 6:17 am; edited 1 time in total 

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 Afmob
 Joined: 09 Mar 2010  Posts: 73  :   Items 

Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:59 am Post subject: 


That's impressive! I'll only look for 13 clue Sudokus with few solutions for fun since it doesn't seem to help finding one with a unique solution.
Of course, my main program stops when it finds a second possible solution for a puzzle. Otherwise it would take too long going through all possible Sudokus. 

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